The vBulletin Meltdown, and Great Customer Service from IPS

Posted October 29 by Dan Cryer

vBulletin LogoI’ve been following the situation at vBulletin with some interest for a few months now, from the acquisition of Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. by Internet Brands, Inc. to the recent upgrade of their company forums and pricing structure changes. It’s been quite the dramatic few months, coming to head lately in what can only be [politely] described as a negative press frenzy. From heated forum topics and “expose” blogs, right through to a feature on The Register. Several ex-employees of Jelsoft have also been less than complimentary regarding the way that Internet Brands are now running the company. Scott MacVicar (ex-Jelsoft employee and PHP Core Developer) posted on his Twitter account: “So sad to see the company I helped build up screw customers over. Glad I bailed when I did.”

There has been word from some sources that the vBulletin team have been banning members for negative posts on their company forums, something Jelsoft were previously proud to be flexible about allowing. “Since Internet Brands took over [vBulletin] and started changing things around, I have been quite critical of them on their public support forum, and this has escalated to a crescendo this week,” one paying customer told The Register, requesting anonymity. “[On Sunday], they inexplicably banned quite a few people, myself included, for their complaints.” He also said that the company has deactivated his “quality-forum support,” which means he can no longer download software modifications from vbulletin.org. And since his banning, his support tickets have been ignored.

When I asked Ray Morgan, General Manager of vBulletin Solutions, for comment on why he felt there was such a negative response to the new pricing changes, he responded: “We disagree that reaction has been bad. We’ve experienced record software sales since vBulletin 4.0 went on sale, demonstrating an overwhelmingly positive response.” Adding that the company “don’t believe a small but vocal minority should be taken to represent the entire vBulletin community of tens of thousands of customers.” The problem that Ray seems to be missing is that the “small but vocal minority” are the core community of enthusiasts, the people who spread the word about the product, many of which have been part of that community for over five years. Internet Brands may be seeing record sales on their books, but those core users that made the product a success, are now looking to move to other forum software providers, and many of them are choosing Invision Power Board, arguably now the leading community software on the market.

In response to a recent interview with IPS Chief Software Architect Matt Mecham, the ex-Lead Developer of vBulletin, Kier Darby, commented that “IPB3 looks like the current state of the art for forum software, well done to you and your team.” Having worked on vBulletin 4 himself, this is quite a cutting review of the software that Ray Morgan describes as “an incredibly robust product with unrivaled forum features.” Including “virtually unlimited configurability, customization and permissions management.” IPS have also publicly commented that their own company forums run on a single virtual private server, which compared to the five server cluster (including two web servers and three database servers) that the vBulletin customer forums are powered by, is quite remarkable. When Internet Brands finally managed to reopen their forums after the seemingly disasterous upgrade, their cluster ground to a halt, Ray Morgan told me that this was “due to our customers’ extremely high interest in seeing the 4.0 product live,” adding that “the initial pattern of usage was characterized by people eagerly exploring every corner of the site. It was like Christmas at Macy’s (or, for our U.K. customers, post-Christmas at Harrods)” and  that “overall performance has been better on 4.0 than it was on 3.8.4.” Other sources who have seen the code suggest that the initial server troubles were more likely caused by a horribly unoptimised code-base, and new features that are all but guaranteed to bring servers to their knees – notably the new search index – a feature that was dropped from IP.Board 3.0 in it’s beta program as a result of significant MySQL table locking problems.

Invision Power Services LogoInvision Power Services have taken the recent events as an opportunity to showcase what they’ve learned from their previous mistakes in regard to criticisms about being overly corporate, by being open in their opinion on the situation, providing clear and detailed answers for confused vBulletin refugees, and arguably most notably, lowering their prices. Charles Warner, the company’s President, noted on their company Twitter account that “IPS understands many clients use IP.Board for their livelihoods and we take our responsibility to them seriously.” A sentiment that will tick a lot of boxes for concerned forum owners. IPS have, however, taken the situation with note-worthy humility; Matt Mecham shared his views with me: “I find the current situation to be most disheartening for everyone who has an interest in [vBulletin]. Knowing that the original developers felt so despondent by the new management that they chose to walk away from a job they held for 9 years or so says more than I ever could about the situation.”

As someone who has worked with community software for over six years, it saddens me to see this situation come to a head in the way that it has. Jelsoft had a great product in vBulletin, and were a strong player in the forum software market. Unfortunately, Internet Brands seem hell bent on destroying that reputation, and with it, they’re taking away one of the best sources of innovation for the other providers: competition. I truly hope that Ray Morgan, the vBulletin team, and Internet Brands as a whole, recognise the damage they are doing to their product, and manage to turn it around before it’s too late.

If you’re a vBulletin user, a recent IP.Board convert, or anyone that works on or with community software, I would love to hear your thoughts. Please leave any comments below.

Disclosure note: I am not an employee of Invision Power Services, however I do hold a moderation position at their company forums. The position has not influenced this post in any way, other than to provide me a dual-sided view on the situation. Quotes from Ray Morgan were requested and received via email on October 28th by myself and have not been modified.

14 Responses to “The vBulletin Meltdown, and Great Customer Service from IPS”

  1. Dan Waldron says:

    Hello. I was reading someone elses blog and saw you on their blogroll. Would you be interested in exchanging blog roll links? If so, feel free to email me.

    Thanks.

  2. I’m not going to come here and troll like many will do. I just wanted to say how eloquently and succinctly this article was written. Good job!

  3. Very, very well put.
    As far as “overwhelming responses” to sales, what do you expect when you hold customers hostage? Of course there’s an “overwhelming response to sales”. It’s either pay $130 now, or pay $300 later. Come on now, this isn’t showing any sort of respect for customers at all.

    Right now, IB/vBulletin is in trouble, and they’re trying to get a “bailout” from their customers. A few of them may have been suckered into the scheme, but most (yes, Ray, I did say MOST) didn’t.

    Out of the customers I talked to (I work on vB forums for multiple customers), not a single one of them is going to shell out this kind of cash for this product. Why should they, they’ve already paid for vBulletin.

    This is nothing but a nightmare for IB. I wish I could say the future looks good for IPB (the other paid forum software company), but having experienced their product (and lack of proper documentation) first hand, I can’t say they’re that much better.

  4. Dan Cryer says:

    Hi “TV on the Brain”, thank you for your feedback and contribution… It’s great to hear from an active vBulletin customer, although very sad to hear you don’t know where you should be going.

    Out of interest, have you had any particular problems with IPS and/or IP.Board? I’m sure they’d be happy to help out if so. :)

  5. Nice read, I think it’s sort of funny that adminaddict gets another mention for the vbulletin discussion. Oh well, more power to them. I’m sticking with vbulletin on one of my forums, but I’ve also purchased and setup an IPB to test and play with. No reason to limit our options

  6. Dan,
    I gave IPS/IPB a serious try, but their “community” is more like a group of children waiting to pounce and give -rep if anyone doesn’t share their opinion, and that, coupled with the fact that the product is confusing to navigate through and lacks proper documentation (a manual, for one), was enough to turn me away. How is a person supposed to get help if the support forums treat them like crap, and there is no documentation?

  7. phpBB Fan says:

    I had IPB about a year ago, but they terminated my license and forum account for something stupid.

    I regret acting the way I did, but suspending licenses for someting related to their forums isn’t right.

    Since then, I’ve been working with phpBB, and I love it.

    vBulletin and IPB are as bad as eachother. Move to something where you’re guaranteed to get support without high ego staff members in the way.

  8. Great article and easy to read. Its been a sheer catastrophe over at vBulletin since IB has taken over, one train wreck after the next.

    The upgrade to vBulletin 4 was rushed, and a disaster. I was one of the first ones on the board and it took over 5 minutes for pages to load and almost 12 minutes to navigate and post a thread.

    Don’t believe the bullshit hype that “it was a ton of customers online at once waiting to see it in action”, that simply wasn’t true. The Who’s online list showed 285 guests and members online before it was shut off for a few more hours (While presumable more servers were ordered)

  9. [...] Update: Dan Cryer also did a Good Article. [...]

  10. hotwheels says:

    First off, here is the link to the initial information of the upcoming changes: http://www.brent-wilson.com/archives/46/

    Secondly, as you can see, everything that is in the information is coming true, word for word: here is rays statement: http://www.brent-wilson.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/picture13etj.png

    Here is the cost structure, before rays announcement: http://www.brent-wilson.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/picture8hpp.png

    I was one of the customers whom was banned for asking questions about all of the changes to come from internet brands, only to be told that the information i am reading is false and that the information isn’t the direction internet brand is leaning towards. As you can see with your own eyes, it is exactly where they went. And now my license has been suspended and i was banned from vbulletin.com/vbulletin.org and my members section. I must be one of the few that are unhappy and since they silenced my on the site, they can now start lying to others.

  11. [...] Master list of vB 4 Frenzy Articles Some missing articles: The vBulletin Meltdown, and Great Customer Service from IPS – Dan Cryer – Leeds Web Developer Case study: how to lose customers and destroy your brand | Blog | Econsultancy Sites dedicated to [...]

  12. [...] Dispute | The Law Professor I Was Around Blog Archive vBulletin Holds Consumers? Puppy Hostage The vBulletin Meltdown, and Great Customer Service from IPS – Dan Cryer – Leeds Web Developer Case study: how to lose customers and destroy your brand | Blog | Econsultancy Shining Light on [...]

  13. hotwheels says:

    Well here is a good one, it appears that team vb.com has stooped to a new low. Brandon Sheley whom runs a site that is built around vbulletin, received a dmca complaint today for sharing Bob Brisco’s public blog “vision for vbulletin” on his site. I am having trouble believing how unprofessional this entire thing is getting. Sending out a DMCA complaint because someone posted what you said word for word, is bullcrap. Brandon has done allot to help with the growth of the vbulletin community, and is now threatened by the company he faithfully seemed to believe in. Is it really legal to even file a DMCA complaint for coping and pasting something that is public on the internet?

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